Prius Personal Log #1040
November 4, 2020 - November 9, 2020
Last Updated: Sun. 2/21/2021
page #1039 page #1041 BOOK INDEX
Confused By Confusing. Their is usually some aspect of misleading that comes about from the antagonist simply trying to confuse the situation. They'll often blame that on you, attempting to portray their posts as efforts to clarify. I find that confirmation of having backed them into a corner. They run out of argument material and have nothing left but to contradict. This was today's attempt: "Yet again, you are confusing HEV and PHEV with BEV. Take out the ICE of the HEV and PHEV and suddenly those are worthless cars as they rely on the ICE for many functionalities." That is an outright lie so obvious, you wouldn't think they'd post it. But spinning the impression that you were implying that is enough to undermine any type of productive posting... which is ultimately their goal. I countered that desperate act with: It is interesting to have exchanges with someone who doesn't know what PHEV technology can deliver. Your assertion about Toyota is false, period. There's nothing to argue. I have countless videos to share documenting exactly that... because you are far from the first person to spread misinformation. Whether intentional or mistaken, you are doing it. Driving within battery-capacity range is a full EV experience. Speed up to 84 mph and heating/cooling are all electric-only. The ICE is not needed. You are confusing other automaker designs with what Toyota offers. Take a look at Toyota's power-split device and how it disengages the ICE. All the propulsion power is directed through MG1 & MG2 using electricity from the battery. The cabin is heated & cooled that same way, using electricity from the battery. Now it's your turn. Tell us what functionalities the ICE is depended upon from their Prime vehicles, either the RAV4 or Prius PHEV. Remember, Toyota's focus is on need, not want.
Worthless. You gotta like this: "All the expertise in HEV, PHEV, FCEV and ICEV is worthless for their future." Remember dismissals like that in the past? They were a sign of desperation. That's encouraging... and great timing. I needed something along those lines, since the political situation is growing so bizarre. It provides a glimmer of encouragement, a promise of better to come in 2021. After all, we did see Volt die in a similar fashion. Even upon GM's announcement of an end approaching, it wasn't until it actually happened that there could be advancement beyond the barrier enthusiasts had created. With this election, those barriers we struggle with will remain right up until the power change happens. When the old leader finally doesn't have the spotlight anymore, we'll be free of those bonds. Anywho, it's simple to deal with at that point. In the meantime, I don't waste much time with their nonsense. Today, it was: They share motor, battery, heating, cooling, steering, braking and charging technology. Those components are interchangeable, since they operate the same electrically regardless of the vehicle they are in. Toyota will continue to refine each of those components, optimizing production & efficiency while also making them more robust. It's a formula for success. Claiming "worthless" is a blatant attempt to mislead.
Clueless Or...? At this point, I don't even have to ask. When something like this gets posted, it's as baseless as some of the stuff our former president just tried to tell us: "RAV4 Prime is a ICEV with a battery electric add-on. It does not use real BEV technology and is a poor man's effort to produce a "me too" car." Thankfully, you can mute what's being said. I did too. You quote the opening line and don't take any of the rest of the bait. After all, there's nothing to gain from arguments online. The only benefit comes from refining replies and the occasional mistake on their part. Today though, there was nothing for me. I just typed up a response to provide exposition for lurkers: It is interesting to encounter someone who passionately argues with a incorrect understanding. It's pointless to argue. It only takes a few minutes of study to see how the two electric-motors (and third independent for AWD models) propel the vehicle using only electricity. The entire EV drive system sits in front of the ICE. To get that ICE to provide power, it must be clutched in. Cabin heating & cooling is electric too, using the very same technology as BEV... a heat-pump. Fundamentally, the only difference is fewer stacks in the battery-pack. In other words, it has an ICE as a backup for when that smaller pack runs out of electricity. There's nothing poor about that.
Food Analogy. When an executive from Toyota says anything in contrast to Tesla, expect their to be a big buzz in the enthusiasts community. The online troublemakers thrive on such material. It feeds their narrative of "one way only" to spin perception that alternative means to reach the same goal are impossible. Because if they were, the measure of "leader" would fall apart. The world must only be viewed from a single angle. They cannot handle multiple approaches. That's a fundamental weakness for them. It prevents seeing opportunity, limiting options. Oh well. Their loss. I jumped into the craziness, at a point where someone was ranting about Toyota not having a clue: RAV4 Prime and UX300e don't demonstrate an understanding in what? They represent an investment in EV propulsion, exactly what's needed for their upcoming BEV platform, but in production already. That's setting the stage for the future, gaining experience and providing an opportunity to refine. It positions them well for a ramp-up without concern, since the tech will be well proven at that point. In fact, that prepare-in-advance approach is why RAV4 hybrid (and now Prime) worked so well right from the day of launch. Toyota used Prius to shake out design & components ahead of time. They are doing the same thing now... hence the "real" food analogy. That's how you plan to feed the masses.
In The Beginning. I really enjoyed responding to
this: "Toyota makes decent cars, not as good as they
once were, but still better than most, but they don't make a BEV, so the
point is moot. Once they do, then the marketplace will decide who makes the
best BEV. So far..." It was the same sentiment I have heard
from countless enthusiasts. Their passion blind them from recognizing
audience. I had no idea such a basic concept would be such a huge
barrier. You'd think they would provide detail, not just
talking-points. It rarely ever happens. It's just the same old
rhetoric, no substances. Ugh. Today, this was my reply to the
That vague use of "marketplace" and "best" doesn't really tell us anything.
"Marketplace" has really only been the realm of early-adopters so far, those seeking out opportunity. They get rewarded for helping establish a new standard by getting discounts and tax-credits. It's a worthy contribution to the cause, but isn't any type of gauge about how those who shop the showroom floor with respond.
That disconnect between buyer types is a big problem, since they define "best" in completely different ways. Power & Range are rated with much higher priority than Affordability & Reliability. It's a perfectly normal tradeoff not acknowledged, or even recognized, by distinct categories of market. "Best" is subjective.
Also, that use of "market" is meaningless. Even within our own country, groups of buyers, as well as their opportunity to purchase/own, vary dramatically. Some have access to tier-2 fast-chargers, others don't even have an outlet available for level-1 charging. With such a diversity, leading at the first milestone in a long race that will have multiple winners, only provides hints of potential.
Think about how many plug-in sales there were last year in the United States in contrast to the overall 17 million. We (that's you, myself, and others from the early-adopter stage) really haven't seen anything yet. It is only beginning.
Messed Up Priorities. I absolutely loved getting this antagonist response: "So it other words, they got nothing." That sums up the attitude lately. It comes from recognition of having backed into a corner... where what you argued in the past puts you in a hypocritical situation. This is how goal-posts get moved. They realize their own criteria has been fulfilled, so there's nothing left to do except admit defeat. That desire to continue fighting is intense. In fact, our current president on the edge of defeat is now providing the ultimate example of that... especially with the reality of that denial eventually a harsh reality. Anywho, this is what I posted in return: 42 miles of EV from overnight charging using just a standard household outlet equates to a yearly opportunity of over 15,000 miles of electric-only driving. The goal is to dramatically reduce fossil-fuel consumption quickly. Offering that in a package which provides 0-60 in 5.8 seconds from a 302 horsepower AWD system that can deliver 2,500 pounds of towing-capacity, along with the 42 miles of daily EV, is what? Considering that "nothing" would represent some seriously messed up priorities.
The Last 10 Years. From the early-adopter perspective, Toyota is so far behind they are likely to go bankrupt. Being so focused on their niche, they fail to see the bigger picture. Hopefully, not all of them, even within that audience. I'm quite curious how things will change in the next few months as a result of the wake-up call this election has stirred. In the meantime, it's posts like this for my reply: The timeline of enthusiasts is of no interest to Toyota. In fact, that's what this article draws attention to... the "real food" is an analogy to what the masses will consume... ironically named, consumers. Being such a large legacy automaker, Toyota is focusing on their "boring" and "dull" vehicles that provide sustainable profit. That's very different compared to Tesla, which produces far fewer vehicles and is able to supplement income with investor-capital & carbon-credits... which are both short-term opportunities. In other words, there is nothing wrong with how Tesla approached their success. But that pretty has nothing in common or even helpful to how Toyota needs to approach their own business adaptation to the emerging market. As for your question of "...exactly what Toyota BEVs have I been able to buy in the United States in the last ten years?" The answer is they have been actively rolling out that component by component. The motors, controller, charger, heat-pump, battery-cells and associated software has been following an evolutionary path. Each being proven & refined along the way to a profitable BEV for the masses. It's only enthusiasts who insist upon revolutionary. With gas under $2 per gallon and no government support, taking the slow & steady is likely to prove a huge success. Know your audience.
False Narratives. There are some obvious antagonists emerging. Most are BEV purists annoyed that Toyota is taking the time to do it right, targeting their own loyal customers instead of catering to enthusiasts. From one such individual, we got this: "Maybe they'll start to make BEVs in the future..." It was in an article responding to recent financial writing comparing Tesla to Toyota. Basically, Tesla has the right "recipe" but no "real food" is being made yet. Unlike Toyota, who has a solid base of consumers providing reliable on-going profit, there is no clear path forward for Tesla. What will it produce for the masses? Their expensive, high-performance vehicles now are specialty offerings. There shouldn't be any debate about that; yet, some try to push the perception of "normal" by spinning a false narrative. They make you lose touch with priorities & expectations... that classic want verses need problem. I was happy to call him out on his repeated attempts: Why are you posting such blatantly false information, a fact very easy to disprove? Just recently, this very website posted 2 articles on Toyota's first BEV offering, pointing out how it market is growing from China to Europe. Currently produced within the Lexus brand as UX300e and the Toyota brand as C-HR and Izoa, it is impossible for you to claim they haven't started making them yet. In fact, the premiere took place over 1.5 years ago. So, the intention of this rollout occurring now is very simple to confirm... Toyota Premieres Toyota-brand Battery Electric Vehicles Ahead of 2020 China Launch. You are also well aware of the reality that the EV system in RAV4 Prime is sharing technology with these offerings and will with the upcoming BEV platform... what had been scheduled for reveal during the 2020 Olympics, but was postponed due to the pandemic. In short, stop feeding the narrative to mislead about Toyota. It is indisputably not true.
Blind. Throughout the day, it has been getting worse.
I kept my response brief... being so frustrated, that's usually the best
approach: It never ceases to amaze me how people will just make up
stuff, pushing a future of FUD without substance while at the same time
turning a blind-eye to the situation playing out at that very moment.
Propaganda. When you didn't think it could get any worse... Several days past the election and no progress has been made. Again, the parallels are uncanny. I had no idea my past experience would provide so much insight into the situation playing out now within the political world. But then again, caring for the environment with a focus on keeping business & consumer both high priorities, seeing money corrupt in the face of power of any sort is an obvious outcome. Success requires balance. Greed is the absence of it. Propaganda is the justification, an excuse abusers use to cover up their true motive. Seeing it today, I shared this wisdom: It's unfortunate how much propaganda gets spread. Most of it is meritless nonsense. Look for substance to support those wild claims. The hope is you won't, since there isn't any evidence. That's why several legal challenges have already been dismissed.
No Evidence. Yup, just like with the automotive stuff, our current president is totally making stuff up. He is so desperate to get the results of the election overturned, he's just wildly making stuff up. That same old nonsense happened with Volt... over and over and over again. Outright lies became so common, anyone with any integrity still remaining left. There was no one but the truly desperate remaining at the end. We're seeing the same thing play out with the executive office now. It's over. He lost. Yet, there's some delusional narrative about that not being the situation. We're getting claims of fraud. It's absurd. Even if some claim was revealed to actually be true, it wouldn't affect the outcome anyway. A tiny instance of redemption does not cover for many years of outright lies and blatant disregard for doing what's right. He doesn't care, just like the Volt enthusiasts didn't. The parallel is uncanny. They argue for pride, not for any genuine or sincere cause. It's all about winning an argument for the sake of keeping a spotlight trained on them. Praise was the ultimate win. That's so weak & shallow, it makes it easy to understand why no evidence isn't a problem. So what if they don't have any? Their purpose isn't to bring society a step forward out of the current mess anyway. It's all about conquest. Ugh.
Extra Time. Not sure if any question related to plugging in will help distract from the craziness of our election. We're trying though: "I think the extra time is to allow the traction battery heater or cooler to run, even though it often shows long times when those definitely won't run. Toyota is really bad at software." That was from a newbie attempting to guess about recharge timing based on anecdotal observations. It's easy to come up with something seemingly accurate, but actually way off because you overlooked a factor that was far from obvious. I always look for pieces of the puzzle that don't quite feel like they actually go together. You know (or perhaps you don't), when you see a value presented but aren't really certain of how it came to be. As a software engineer, those chunks of logic that don't quite make sense are what come back to get you... when you should have taken the time to find out why such a specific value was stated. In this case, why something isn't certain. For example, how many people ever question why the voltage stated on the back of pretty much every device you have ever plugged in lists the voltage as a range, rather than a specific value. I bet most never give it a second thought. So, when it comes to actually using the value, they are destined to make a mathematical mistake due to an assumption... an uncertainty. I put it this way: Time varies based on voltage too. That's a factor often overlooked. Notice how level-1 is listed as a range, from 110 to 120. My level-2 times are faster than others because my actually runs at 244 volts, which exceeds the usual maximum of 240. Also note that the commercial EVSE in public locations, like ChargePoint, run at 208 volts. This is why you'll see charging rates top out at about 3.3kW but people at home report 3.6kW. In short, there are lots of numbers to take into account. Not having those inputs known or consistent makes software, like estimating, very difficult. And that's without even mention of the impact temperature has.